Tales from the Periphery
an interview by Szabolcs Tóth
In April this year I cautiously and reluctantly broke my resolve, not to give interviews to Hungarian media. In such a polarised public space, I prefer not to become a political football. But Szabolcs Tóth persuaded me into his studio for a three and a half hour interview - about my life in Hungary and before, and my views on the world in general. The title of his podcast series was inspired by The Hitchhikers’ Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams’ 1979 classic. ‘Az élet meg minden’ is a Hungarian rendering of ‘Life, the Universe, and Everything’ - the theme of his regular podcasts. As a former hitchhiker myself, I appreciate that reference. Last week Szabolcs published a slightly edited two hours forty-six minute version of his interview with me, here:
2.8 thousand people had listened to it by today on YouTube, while around 20,000 have listened on Szabolcs’s site, Spotify. Apple Podcasts and other platforms.
- disproving studies which suggest that our attention span nowadays trails off after about 12 seconds.
If you speak Hungarian, happy listening - I hope you enjoy it. There are interviews with many other remarkable people there. If you don’t speak Hungarian, I’ve put an AI-generated summary in English below, provided by Szabolcs. Don’t expect any political fireworks - it’s not my job to attack governments, just to ask them searching questions of my own. Which I hope to continue to do, for many a long moon.
Many thanks to Szabolcs for his interest, and searching questions of his own. I enjoyed the experience more than I expected. And many thanks to all of you, new readers of my Substack, who subscribed after listening to this podcast. I’ve illustrated the English-language summary with recent photographs of roses and poppies, from my garden.
1. Introduction and a Provocative Premise [00:00:00]
The interview begins with Szabolcs Tóth welcoming Nick Thorpe to the studio. Szabolcs introduces a unique starting point for their conversation: an incident from Nick's Danube film series where he met a man in Belgrade who had publicly sentenced him to death. This sets the stage for a wide-ranging discussion.
The episode promises to cover topics from Nick's fieldwork, his sense of responsibility, his new book on the Carpathians, and reflections on hope in troubled times.
2. The Belgrade Death Sentence (1999 NATO Bombing) [00:06:26]
Nick recounts being in Belgrade on March 23, 1999, reporting for the BBC during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. He describes learning from a Serbian TV channel, Palma Plus, that he and a CNN correspondent were publicly sentenced to death as "NATO journalists" and "enemies of the Serbian people," which led the BBC to withdraw him from reporting.
3: Facing Those Who Threatened Him [00:14:04]
Following the death threat, Nick and the BBC team decided to leave Belgrade after a colleague informed them that paramilitary leader Arkan was taking journalists from their hotel. They managed to escape via the lift with their equipment as Arkan and his armed men ascended the stairs. Nick highlights a threat to put all NATO journalists in a stadium and kill them, making their stay "uncomfortable".
Nick explains his 2020 decision to confront Miki Vujovic, the Serbian TV host who incited violence against him and reflects on what drives people to make such decisions. This leads to a broader consideration of accountability, both in politics and everyday life.
4: Responsibility, Veg(etari)anism, and Personal Choices [00:19:02]
The discussion turns to Nick's early commitment to responsible living, as illustrated by his teenage decision to stop eating meat. He considers the impact of individual choices in a world of billions. That individuals are accountable for the society they create, their words, and actions, rejecting the notion that personal decisions are insignificant. He asserts that one can only truly influence one’s immediate surroundings.
5: Interviewing Perpetrators – The Migrant Tragedy [00:21:32]
Nick shares his experience interviewing a convicted trafficker responsible for the deaths of 71 migrants in Hungary in 2015 (the Parndorf case), describing the rare journalistic opportunity to question not just politicians or victims, but those responsible for tragedies.
6: Journalism, Espionage, and War Reporting [00:28:14]
Questions arise about the blurred line between war reporting and espionage, especially when foreign journalists are in countries their governments are attacking. Nick clarifies the difference and his commitment to giving a voice to all sides.
7: Early Travels – From Africa to Hungary [00:32:53]
Nick recounts his youthful journeys, including hitchhiking to Africa, studying in Senegal, and the influence of travel on his worldview. He draws lessons from encounters with kindness and adversity on the road.
8: Britain, Conservatism, and Community [00:40:01]
A reflection on the changing nature of British society—Thatcher, the decline of manufacturing, and Brexit—leads to insights into the pain of globalization and rural-urban divides, with comparisons to political shifts in the US.
9. Arriving in Hungary – 1980s Tensions [00:52:00]
Nick discusses his move to Hungary in 1986 at age 26, and a vision of the Danube as a continuation of the Nile, symbolizing that "all rivers meet". He recounts earlier travels, including hitchhiking to Dakar, Senegal, for university. He reflects on experiencing poverty in Africa and later in rural Hungary, noting how these experiences humanly affected him. Early work experiences in teaching and writing, including learning Hungarian and observing cultural contrasts.
10: Gorbachev, Optimism, and Press Freedom [00:59:21]
The conversation focuses on optimism and pessimism in 1980s Hungary, the hope of Gorbachev-era reforms, and Nick’s memorable first press conference with the Soviet foreign minister, Eduard Shevardnadze contrasting Western and Hungarian journalistic cultures.
11: The Risks and Rewards of Independent Journalism [01:06:42]
Nick recalls pressure from the Hungarian authorities due to his reporting, the importance of press freedom, and narrowly avoiding expulsion thanks to an unexpected diplomatic intervention in a Budapest café.
12. The "Unfinished Revolution" and Hungary's Transition [01:13:15]
Reflecting on Hungary's post-socialist transition, Nick discusses why he sees it as an "unfinished revolution"—gains in freedom were not always realized at the local or personal level, and democracy didn’t always empower individuals. He contends that democracy became too concentrated among political parties rather than empowering citizens to control their own lives.
13: Autonomy, Bureaucracy, and Everyday Freedom [01:18:36]
Nick shares personal stories about the home birth of his five sons in Hungary as a symbol of tensions between individual decision-making and bureaucratic control, linking this to wider issues of incomplete social contracts.
He emphasizes the need for consensus and limits on government power in a democracy. He recounts a conversation where a Fidesz minister explained the desire for a "revolution" that would break continuity with the previous democratic period and Sólyom László's vision of a structured democracy, implying a rejection of broader societal consensus.
14: Life on the Periphery—Carpathians, National Identity, and "A Kind of Solution" [01:39:25]
Discussion shifts to Nick's new book about the Carpathians, the meaning of home, Trianon, and the layered identities of those living in Central Europe’s borderlands. He reflects on being both British and Hungarian and on the collective pain and resilience in the region.
He expresses his preference for living on the periphery—both physically in the countryside and metaphorically away from centralized power—believing it offers more freedom and perspective. He sees his role as a journalist as serving the public, giving a voice to the voiceless, and promoting dialogue in his Substack newsletter, "A Kind of Solution," in a world often driven by conflict. He affirms his personal philosophy of responsibility for all life and his general optimism about humanity.
15: Rural Resistance, Slovak Lessons, and Community [01:50:56]
The Carpathians lead to talk of grassroots movements in Slovakia/Czechoslovakia, rural-urban gaps, and how local activism contrasted Communist party authority—offering lessons for today’s civil society.
Having become a Hungarian citizen in September 2023, Nick states he better understands the pain felt by many Hungarians due to Trianon, while also acknowledging the joy it brought to neighboring nations. His recent book on the Carpathians explores these themes, featuring diverse human stories and a focus on people who choose to live in the mountains for freedom. He suggests that humanity belongs to the Earth, not the other way around. He emphasizes that patriotism should include the ability to offer hard criticism.
16: Journalism in the Age of Algorithms [02:25:10]
Nick reflects on how social and digital media have transformed journalism, the erosion of classic press influence, and rising difficulties for objective reporting in a polarized, algorithm-driven landscape.
17: Hope, Curiosity, and Staying Engaged [02:43:33]
As the conversation concludes, Nick meditates on why he persists in public life despite difficulties—his curiosity about Hungary’s future, belief in human goodness, optimism for younger generations, and commitment to responsible, engaged journalism and storytelling.
Nick discusses the evolution of media, noting how social media, while enabling anyone to be a journalist, often fosters conflict due to algorithms that prioritize drama over information. He acknowledges the difficulties of maintaining civil dialogue in such a landscape, referencing a past controversy over a misleading headline. Despite the challenges and the "fatiguing" nature of daily politics, he remains in journalism due to his curiosity and sense of responsibility to inform, balancing it with his love for gardening and nature. He expresses deep pride in his five children, who pursue diverse, non-materialistic paths, embodying a spirit of freedom and curiosity, fueling his enduring optimism about humanity's future.
